Friday, March 2, 2012


Ayn’s mother Amie wrote at 5PM Friday. “It could not have gone much worse. Very bad day. I'm sorry I don't want to elaborate. Derek will update when he's ready…. yes. nightmare is a good descriptive word for today, but I'm awake... soul ripped apart, check.”

Wordle: mediationAround 10 PM Friday night Derek Hoare wrote to members of Ayn’s Facebook Page. “hmmm, am pondering just how to handle everything which has transpired. Have spent the last few hours reeling and trying to determine exactly how to proceed. We are bound by the CFCSA section 24 to not disclose anything disclosed at mediation without MCFD's consent.... my emotional state and the prior months however I am free to prattle off about. Am going out for some fresh air and time to think, I sadly cannot really disagree with Amie when she says it could not have gone much worse. So many angles of this need to be reviewed and discussed.... gotta figure out just what to do from here. Assuming i'm up to it i'll come on tonight and try to elaborate as best I can if not I will be on here tomorrow and perhaps others may have some thoughts on just what can be done next………. Also I see a ton of PM's, I simply do not have the time to check them right now, but I can imagine what many of them say so... thank you all, I know there is such care and concern for my family and I really appreciate it, the events of the last few weeks are absolutely alarming and traumatic.


  1. What do you expect? As I have said before, a mediation process with the ministry is like the lamb trying to negotiate with the wolf. The ministry retains total control and Derek has hardly any power or rights whatsoever until he gets his day in court. As I have stated before, mediation should be taken right out of the act, because it just becomes part of the adversarial process and only hamstrings the parents. Derek is right in that the act forbids disclosure of anything discussed at mediation and also in family conferencing. This means that the ministry can put on any unreasonable stupulation and he cannot protest, or seek help from anyone.It is not stated in the act, but this prohibition should not extend to Derek's lawyer. He can disclose whether or not he had his lawyer with him at mediation. This information is not protected.
    When I said that Derek is almost without power, it was in the knowledge that there are still some things he can do. He can demand disclousure under section 64. The ministry will drag their heels, but he can go back to court and get an order to speed things up. He needs to get his lawyer working for him and I have already told him how to do it. It was through disclosure in the Bayne case that they learned that the ministry lawyer had advised them to drop the case two years before and this information was aired on CBC.
    Nobody is required to go to mediation and I would generally advise against it because the ministry is so adversarial---Fraser region especially so. Even though Derek can not disclose information at mediation except to particular people, he can write to the minister or the deputy minister to ask them to review any conditions he considers unreasonable. I also think that he should find out whether any of those restrictions apply to the youth and child advocate, because she can protest on his behalf, if she thinks it is warranted. My understanding is that the ycr has complete access to files and so should be in the circle of confidentiality. Remember that the CF&CSA was enacted years before the YCR was initated and so may not have been amended. However, the YCR act should cover it.
    Should Derek obtain disclosure undrer section 64, he is at liberty to share the information as he sees fit.

  2. What is important with mediation is to get past the manipulation attempts by MCFD operatives and their weaponization of the process, and pay close attention to what is NOT being said. After all, parents have no control over the process and are usually do no know how the sessions are conducted.

    Look at the timing of the meeting, the demeanor and tone of the social workers present, what if anything appeared to be an effort to ensure a good faith process.

    I personally find it curious that a visit schedule with Ayn a week or two before this mediation was cancelled (the last visit, astoundingly, occurred five months ago in October 2011), and the next visit rescheduled this coming Tuesday March 6th.

    If the Province is touting mediation as a viable alternative to court, and we have clear evidence mediators and social workers are in fact using the process to undermine the parents, and they still pursue a win-at-all-costs and damn-the-children-and-families approach, this has to be brought to the attention of the powers that be and the public.

    There should be no doubt MCFD posesses statistics that show their mediation efforts are "successful" and that there is less than a 1:1 relationship to children removed and the resolution is only as a result of court, and the state wins each and every time (meaning their decision to remove is correct 100% of the time.)

    This blog originated on the Baynes case. Let us not forget their mediation (mid-2009 I think) that took place with this family resulting in an agreement that allowed the parents of their three children to live with the grandparents where the two boys were placed. What a remarkable result from mediation!

    This situation lasted barely a month or so before MCFD swooped into the family home without a warrant, during one child's birthday party and removed the two young boys because their parents 'violated' a mediation agreement. Surely MCFD has statistics on how many parents "violate" their agreements, forcing MCFD to take action.

    What happens when MCFD says you break a mediation agreement, you might ask?

    In the Bayne's case, MCFD waited several weeks AFTER the family went public to report the reprehensible behaviour of the state. MCFD carefully planned the time and date to perform a removal at a birthday party. They arrived with police in order to maximize the traumatic effect on the family and children.

    This type of state response is not a unique occurence. This is our government treating us like this on a daily basis. MCFD involves police, medical institutions, courts, counsellors, schools and others.

    Remember that after four years of waiting for their day in court, the Baynes were found innocent of harming their children. They were treated by MCFD as if they were guilty even though Police refused to lay charges.

    Since there is no information yet available on Derek's case, let me guess that MCFD did NOT propose that Amie, Derek, Ayn, Lyric, Wyatt, Uncle Kim, and so on, to participate in a parental capacity assessment. The Baynes mediation agreement did not include a request for a PCA. That came long afterwards.

    Regardless of what went on during the case conference and mediation, MCFD has now sent a clear message. This message is that court, and the long wait that comes with it, is the preferred solution and in the best interests of the children and family.

    At this point, preparation, not whining over failed processes is what is needed to move forward for this family. After all is said and done, THEN deal with the problems that were encountered.

    The Fifth Estate coverage on shaken baby syndrome featuring the Baynes family is one example of steps taken after the children were returned.

  3. Sorry for the delay in posting your comments. I was away from the keyboard for a couple of days.


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