Thursday, August 26, 2010

CW WAS A CONTRIBUTOR / Part 291 / For Love and For Justice / Zabeth and Paul Bayne/

I scrutinize the comments you send to this post. I explained my approach in a post some time ago.

On Wednesday, June 23, 2010 on my post MONITORING THE BLOG / Part 229 / For Love and For Justice / Zabeth and Paul Bayne/ I wrote, “The line is thin between reporting verifiable facts and defamatory material. I am depending upon you to exercise caution and integrity when referring to someone while relating a story or illustration. Because anonymous contributors afford me little confidence that they are who they say they are, SW, CW, parent, or that their motives for writing are honorable, on the basis of what they write, I must be trusting, discerning and objective at the same time.”

CW was a regular reader and contributor for many months. Although many of you did not know this person, the person's willingness to identify as a Care or Community Worker and the nature of this person's comments sent you into attack mode. Enough was revealed within his/her comments to convince most of us this was truly a social worker with inside information. I myself found the writer's comments balanced, extremely supportive of the blog's comments that called for change and improvement to the delivery of services by MCFD, and occasionally making points to clarify or correct statement some of you made about MCF data. Many of you didn't want to accept CW's support of any aspect of MCF work.

Among the things that CW wrote were these comments:
  1.  “I hope this sight is a catalyst for change too and that once the court-involvement with the Bayne's is over, the discussion continues as you see fit, Ron.” June 23, 2010 8:53 AM
  2. “To Anon 11:42 - I am afraid you are spending a lot of time considering my motives and missing the point … I have not once argued there aren't historical or current problems with child protection. I have said the issues which are being portrayed as the majority, are not.”June 23, 2010 9:57 PM
  3. Concerning Chris Martell's story, “God bless this family. So so terrible.” June 30, 2010 2:54 PM
  4. Thank you, Ron, for the valuable information you are posting. June 30, 2010 1:27 PM
  5. One that upset you and me and others concerned the Baynes laying a baby on the floor, something they themselves may have questioned numerous times yet CW wrote: “It was not ok to leave this little girl on the floor - in her condition(age etc), with rambunctious brothers playing nearby. A removable offence? NOT one bit.”
CW has a right to speak forth but not to expect us all to find it palatable. In fact the comment was fair. Hindsight informs that putting the child there was risky but it was not a parental action worthy of child removal.

Characteristic of the contrary remarks that were frequently directed at CW is this example.
To: CW (June 16, 2010 9:01 AM) “Thank you for your prompt reply. I am impressed by your dedication in monitoring this blog, your knowledge in defending the “child protection” industry, your skills in mitigating damage and casting doubt. Your awareness of opposition is above the average of a front line community worker.”

Often CW was required to defend against a misinterpreted statement.
  1. Anon 3:11 - I never once said parents are "better off after receiving services." I did say something along the lines of (paraphrasing myself) "those who voluntarily seek services will benefit from them." I said the postings here which are being portrayed the majority - are the minority. Nothing more. Please do not extrapolate.... I can explain this statement further if you wish it.
  2. To Anon 12:27 - I think its with you where the burden of proof lays, does it not? Someone else had already mentioned PAPA on this web site before I had. I don't mind if people go to PAPA, they post a lot of important videos and articles. I referred solely to the surveillance section.
  3. To Anon 12:18 - I wonder why I would engage in such an exercise with you on this blog - such as you are requesting... I have made my statements. You clearly have evidence you wish to present. By all means do so - I know you are itching... Ray Ferris, a documented former SW, has also stated surveillance, as you suggest it, does not occur... You may read my previous posts and quote when I said "MCFD never" used surveillance as you suggest. I may be wrong in recalling my own posts, but I'd say a good guess is that I said "MCFD does not."
And perhaps that latter comment is the one that I should have been able to recollect before publishing the latest challenge. CW had exhausted this subject of surveillance as far as he/she was concerned. But I didn't remember.
CW signed off a while ago, surprised and disappointed with me for publishing as a post a comment left by an Anonymous someone who challenged CW to respond to a specific issue, namely 'DOES MCFD SPY ON PEOPLE?' By signed off, I mean CW threw in the towel and said he/she would no longer comment on this blog. This Anonymous issued a similar challenge in an earlier post comment section called 'Whose Best Interests?'

CW has a discernible sensitivity. This is not the first time CW was offended and then made up with me and came back. Frankly, I think that the resignation was due to an accumulative affect of recurring exceptions being taken to CW's comments by numerous other writers, who, defensibly, are also very sensitive about the injustices dealt to them.

I have no idea what CW hoped to accomplish by that comment or withdrawal. Was I supposed to be surprised and disappointed? Well, surprised I was. The anonymous comment was sent and would have been published as a comment to a blog post of mine for that day. When I decided to remove that post, the comment still seemed of value enough to me, that I made it the post for the day. Perhaps I should have anticipated that it might offend CW but I didn't. How could I? CW managed other frontal attacks and this comment was eliciting a response. Disappointed? Perhaps a little because my intention was to stir the further engagement of the surveillance topic. Disappointed that CW no longer contributes? Well, sincerely, I try not to hurt people. Weeks of reading my posts should inform someone about that. Candidly, how am I expected to handle an anonymous contributor's fickleness in this impersonal medium.

I am not anonymous. You know who I am.  If a writer attacks me with words, I feel it. That is understandable. CW used initials yet still had a measure of anonymity so it strikes me as plainly silly for CW to feel injured by online comments when the writers do not even know CW, nor do I. I did appreciate the information and viewpoints that CW brought to our interaction. For CW's sake, CW did the right thing. Logged off. But perhaps not the right thing for the rest of us.
Now readers, if you are going to comment, please don't direct it at or to CW. If you have something to say about spying and surveillance by MCFD personnel, in that I would have interest to publish. I think CBC journalist Kathy Tomlinson might also be interested to read these comments.
Who knows, CW may still be commenting under an Anonymous or a pseudonym.

22 comments:

  1. No, Ron, I have not been posting anonymously. Comments such as that are why I've stopped participating. I've not stopped commenting because of anonymous posters.

    I am not a social worker. All statements I made were based on simple google searches. I provided those links.

    I suggest going to a "registration required" comment board.

    Not sure what you are trying to achieve by your post today.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Guten Tag Ron; bist du denn immer noch unruhig!!
    You raise a good topic today and one that has set me wondering. There must be many employees of the childrens ministry reading your blog. They are quite free to contact you without revealing their identities. I find them strangley silent. They do not write to express dismay at this case, nor do they defend it. Surely there must be some employees of good conscience who would wish to express themselves one way or the other. Are they all puppets? Are they afraid to be discovered? Why cannot we hear from some of you? There seems to be something amiss here.

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  3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  4. Thanks for writing CW. Today's post has been sitting in the ready to go bin for a long time. Didn't know whether you would misunderstand. I read and re-read it many times and concluded that it said what I wanted to say. I think you can pick up that I genuinely appreciated your contribution. I respect your withdrawal, yet I am sorry that we don't have your voice. I also wanted to express to others that I value them engaging in the discussion rather than striking back at the communicator. That's it for motivation. Your suggestion that comments should be 'registry required,' is something I have considered before and may do again. It will reduce some confusion, some unnecessary remarks, the volume of comments, but it may quiet some voices who require confidentiality.

    ReplyDelete
  5. PS
    Anonymous said...

    Is it possible to have a "healthy" disrespect?
    August 25, 2010 8:11 PM

    ReplyDelete
  6. Cheers, Ron. I do wish you, the Baynes, and their children all the best.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Just because someone calls for change in the child protection system, doesn't mean that they aren't completely supportive of the child protection industry and completely against parental rights. In fact, those who call for change are often the very same ones who are a big part of the problem. Calling for change often means making more laws against parents, giving more money to child protection, and so on. So the fact that someone claims they want change means absolutely nothing.

    Also, if you go to any blog or youtube or whatever, you will always see the same sort of posters. There always seems to be someone who is claiming to be interested in the welfare of children and so on, yet is subtly (or not so subtley, depending on how adept you are at discerning deception) undermining parental rights. It's almost as if the child protection industry employs people just to brainwash the public. In fact, it has recently been discovered that the government of Canada pays a private firm to do just that, though whether or not they do this for child protection, I do not know.

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  8. And I wonder, does CW stand not for community worker or whatever, but for Case Worker?

    ReplyDelete
  9. In CW's comment above, he/she says no to being a social worker/case worker.

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  10. Anon 4:12 PM
    I want to question you on that last sentence of yours. If you tell us that it has been discovered the Canada's government pays a private firm to employ people to brainwash the public, tell us where that evidence is – regardless of whether you know or don't know if that work is done with regard to child protection. Because if you cannot supply us with that, I have a problem with that kind of padding to make a point

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  11. I probably shouldn't use the term "brainwash" - what I should say is the government has been found to have hired a private firm to counter, for example, negative publicity or "misinformation" regarding the seal hunt.

    --------------------
    "The government is looking for ways to monitor online chatter about political issues and correct what it perceives as misinformation.

    The move started recently with a pilot project on the East Coast seal hunt. A Toronto-based company called Social Media Group has been hired to help counter some information put forward by the anti-sealing movement.

    The Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade has paid the firm $75,000 "to monitor social activity and help identify … areas where misinformation is being presented and repeated as fact," Simone MacAndrew, a department spokesperson, said in an email."

    http://enmasse.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?p=234178&sid=d4a3f8bfcfefe7206ccfecd1e031b656

    -------------
    An obscure reference, to be sure; but I'm sure it can be confirmed with a more mainstream media source, which I believe is where I first read it at any rate.

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  12. "The Harper government has been monitoring political messages online, and even correcting what it considers isinformation. One local expert says the government is taking things too far.Under the pilot program the Harper government paid a media company $75,000 to monitor and respond to online postings about the east coast seal hunt.UBC Computer Science professor and President of the BC Freedom of Information and Privacy Association, Richard Rosenberg, says it seems unnecessary for the government to be going this far."

    http://pushedleft.blogspot.com/2010/07/stephen-harper-hires-private-firm-to.html


    ==============================
    ALSO SEE THIS FACEBOOK ARTICLE:

    Andrew Bureaucrats monitor online forums

    Last Updated: Sunday, May 23, 2010 | 10:43 AM ET Comments6Recommend9.
    The Canadian Press
    The next time you post an opinion in an online forum or a Facebook group message board, don't be surprised if you get a rebuttal from a federal employee.

    The government is looking for ways to monitor online chatter about political issues and correct what it perceives as misinformation.

    The move started recently with a pilot project on the East Coast seal hunt. A Toronto-based company called Social Media Group has been hired to help counter some information put forward by the anti-sealing movement.

    The Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade has paid the firm $75,000 "to monitor social activity and help identify … areas where misinformation is being presented and repeated as fact," Simone MacAndrew, a department spokesperson, said in an email.

    Employees trained in online posting for seal hunt topics
    The firm alerts the government to questionable online comments and then employees in Foreign Affairs or the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, who have recently been trained in online posting, point the authors to information the government considers more accurate.

    It appears to be just the beginning...."

    (THE ARTICLE IS CON'T FOR THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE)
    http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=260348091419&topic=17087&post=146980

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  13. I believe it was president Harry Truman that said, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." The vocal audience is generally anti-wrongful-removal

    This is just a theory, but BoostForKids.org would be a long example of a an "independent" fundraising website that operates on behalf of children. National TV ads raising awareness of abuse towards children can then be promoted this way. Public relations firms are commonly hired to form such "independant" organizations.

    U.K. also has one that features a bear-- I'll have to look that one up.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Guten Abend, Herr Ferris. Ich kann auch die Deutsche Sprache sprechen. Es ist eine schone Sprache.

    Vielleicht, es ist die Sprache der Freundschaft Seelen.

    Aber, bitte, vergeben Sie mir. Ich hatte studiert Deutsch an der Universität jedoch habe ich viele Worte und die Grammatik vergessen.

    Aber, Ich bin der Sprache an meinem Herzen.
    Leser von NYC

    To those who do not speak German--

    I was amazed to see Mr. Ferris' comment to Pastor Ron said in German. I have told Mr. Ferris that I also speak German but quite badly now. I had studied same at University but I have forgotten many words and grammar.
    I suggested that perhaps German may be the language of kindred souls as we fight for the Baynes.

    I also said that German has a dear place in my heart.

    And, to all of you who DO speak German, sorry for all the errors. It has been quite some time since I have spoken, nevertheless, written anything in German.

    Reader from NYC

    ReplyDelete
  15. Healthy disrespect? --no no, one must always be respectful. A healthy distrust, however, is another animal altogether.

    It is possible to remain respectful while also maintaining a healthy distrust.

    "Think like a serpent but act like a dove"

    Reader from NYC
    Please, no one, ask me to say same in German. I am afraid that my German language skills may have been exhausted for this evening.

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  16. Regarding the government hiring private firms to monitor social activity. This may, to some, seem innocuous. However, it should be highly offensive to anyone who objects to the government using our money to tell us how to think, which is basically what they are doing. The government should not be the media. It is the media's job, and citizen's job, to form their own opinions without the interference of gov't. We are paying to be told how to think, if our thinking does not accord with what the gov't thinks we should think.

    And you have to wonder how long this has been going on, and how it is being used - is it, for example, being used in the area of child protection. Please, social workers, don't tell me that you "know" it isn't being done, because I highly doubt that if it was being done, social workers would know.

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  17. Ron,

    In your post you say that some readers took exception to problems within the Child Protection Industry being represented as the rule rather than the exception. (Not an exact quote obviously.) However, it has been my experience that finding anyone who does not feel they were wronged by MCFD(CPS,CAS,Etc.) is the exception, not the rule. After listening to stories from many different people, a trend has emerged and it isn't a happy one. Once upon a time I heard a lawyer say that he could go into Court with any random file off his desk and as long as he didn't use the wrong names, the judge would never know he had the wrong file. I have tested this theory in a conversation I had with the Baynes and many other people. Sadly, I verified the truth of this statement. I have applied a generic outline to test this premise on cases spanning many jurisdictions and it has always held up. How one could argue that problems within the industry are isolated is beyond my comprehension.

    The question, I believe, has always been and still remains, "How do we correct this corruption of the Public's trust?" Obviously, transparency, or more correctly oversight with authority is one of the more promising solutions. Will this stop wrongful removals? Not likely. Until we return to very simple laws dedicated to helping children truly in need, travesties of Justice will continue all in the name of Child Protection. JJ Kelso must be turning over in his grave.

    ReplyDelete
  18. The most serious way that we are spied on is through our files. I have a file on me from MCFD calling people who know me and the teachers at my children's school and asking for what they know. Then it is written down. My child went through some difficulties and now he is written up and later in his adult life, he will suffer from his files taken by a child protection agency while he was a minor. It is fine if they had continued to use the information to help people, but they are now using it wrongly in court on families who do not deserve it. Of course they spy. It is part of the job, not some clandestine activity.

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  19. The answer of Anon 6:03 might be better understood by the wikipedia entry labelled "Crisis Management."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_management

    The subsection Crisis as Opportunity might be the current state of MCFD that the Baynes case is experiencing. Finn has created an opportunity that allows MCFD think tank specialists to reflect and plan the best damage control.

    MCFD may present as simplistic bumbling idiots at times, and I note Ray Ferris tends to emphasis this in his writeups but I personally do not believe this to be true.

    It is not logical or fiscally prudent NOT to have an aspect of "brainwashing" (otherwise known as public relations or spin). Police have very visible spin agents and media manipulation and control. Larger organizations such as MCFD, I believe have to be more sophisticated and subtle.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Child Protection Exposed 10:21 PM
    Your thesis of generic file content across the board is fascinating and plausible. No argument here regarding problems existent within the child protection community. You hit the primary question squarely. I would like to develop that in coming blog posts, perhaps inviting suggestions about now we can correct the corruption of the pubic trust.

    ReplyDelete
  21. CW admits that he or she stated: "those who voluntarily seek services will benefit from them."

    Not anyone I've ever heard about, talked to. In fact, from what I've heard, "services" are used to get more evidence against the parent, in order to permanently deprive them of parental rights.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I voluntarily sought services and had really good relations with front line service providers and I was deeply in favour of MCFD. THen a change of heart from them. I got my file and learned that all voluntary services are written as investigations and nasty stuff was written about me from otherwise nice SWs. WHy??? SOme who were meaner to my face wrote nicer stuff or nothing at all. I learned that there is never any help from MCFD unless they consider your child at risk. SO, if you can pay for the respite help or the home making of the counselling or the parenting course, DO!!! All that time of attending all the workshops and all my sincerity was not written anywhere. Nothing favourable about me was written. SWs must believe they must frame the parent.WHy?

    ReplyDelete

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