Acting as keeper of the key is an onerous responsibility. Everyone is welcomed and when people desire to comment, some modest expectations are communicated. As I manage this blog, I act as a keeper of the key or, a door keeper. If I had to do it, I suppose I could remove someone's access to the blog itself. Also, when I must, I can reject a comment that is deposited in my inbox. Of course that is discretionary but it is reasonable in this 'blind' online forum. I comment on an art blog and on CBC and my comments wait for approval there as well. One must play by the rules and one must be prudent when writing on a blog site like this. When you write on this blog, what many of you are taking exception to is being compelled to helplessly play by the rules of a Ministry of Children and Family Development that exercises so much subjective interpretation and has the full weight of law at its back and the final determinative strength of the court system to enforce its moves. You are obliged to hope that you will find someone who is objective and honest and just to assist you, to represent you or to rule your case. Before that court outcome you are treated like criminals, humiliated, reprimanded, punished, harassed, neglected and more. And worse than that your children are innocently punished as well by being removed from their roots and the familiar home of their biological caregivers. So I grant that there is almost inexpressible emotion pent up like a Mount St. Helen's with the cap on. Yet if you expect to tell the world and have the world listen, the analogies you use must be well chosen.
Some of your comments have incorporated the term “Nazi” in reference to MCFD actions. I know that we will move past the use of the term as other subjects take over the conversation. Nonetheless, I believe there are more appropriate and more accurate terms for this government ministry. Nazism stood for national socialism, a form of fascism which incorporated biological racism and anti-Semitism. Nazis believed in the supremacy of an Aryan master race and that the Germans were the pure Aryan nation that should create a new order so it could survive as a modern great nation. It believed that Jews were a parasitic people and that Jews were the primary threat to the Aryan race and the German nation and it exterminated human beings. It aspired to be the great empire and therefore sought land mass, resources, population expansion and economic and military supremacy. That is not what MCFD stands for nor do Nazis comprise its staff regardless of some of the things they are doing which ruin lives in the name of protecting children.
No, MCFD is not NAZIsm. Nothing close. The use of that term delivers everything wrapped in that above description. You lose some of your audience when you use it carelessly. Of course I understand why the use of the term has some clout. It has shock value. Some people who write here are so incensed, so disgusted, so enraged, so wounded by these people whose actions resemble for us nothing short of the barbarity of that rotten ideology that sparked a war. Do you want to effectively communicate grievance? Then work at words well enough to find the ones that convince legislators, policy makers and decision makers. I apologize. It sounds like I am lecturing. That's not my intention. I want to see a concerted and effective portrayal of the facts that push our government to attention. Some of you have used the term “dumb” to characterize MCFD employees and managers and that may be better because I think some actually are. Yet you might want to try adjectives like heartless, hard-hearted, callous, cruel, inhumane, brutal, uncaring, pitiless, unmerciful, uncompassionate, vindictive, vengeful, malicious, malevolent.
We must find a way of telling our stories that collectively they become an irresistible force not merely to those who share our pain but those who must yet be convinced that pain exists and that relief will come only when our child protection system and its pattern of conduct are changed. Have you got some ideas?
To all pro family writers:
ReplyDeleteUsing extreme words and writing long comments will turn readers away. Avoid them. There is no point preaching to the choir. Your mission is as difficult as convincing people that you have seen a ghost. Your target audience are those who have no idea and experience of what MCFD does in real life, not those who have been oppressed and learnt reality the hard way.
Replace the following in the third paragraph of today’s blog:
national socialism with liberal socialism
biological racism and anti-Semitism with ideological racism and anti-family
supremacy of an Aryan master race with supremacy of special interests
Germans with “child protection” social workers
Jews with parents
and compare Ron’s interpretation of Nazism with the “child protection” regime. See any similarities?
Pro MCFD writers under various covers are experts in government propaganda and damage control. They are masters of deception and have been very successful in concealing their wrongdoings and fooling gullible people to believe what they want them to believe. That’s why they created atrocities comparable to that of residential schools, both in nature and magnitude, and yet get away unnoticed and punished.
Of course, there are exceptions. With the tax dollars at the Ministry’s disposal, a lot of show cases can be bought. The Bayne’s case proves that there is serious corruption and abuse of authority and process. Even one case like this is one too many. I can assure readers here that there are many like this out there.
Use your evidence in other more lethal platform. Don’t alert them what weapons you have in your arsenal. There is nothing to gain here.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln
To 11:42 am
ReplyDelete"Pro MCFD writers under various covers are experts in government propaganda and damage control. They are masters of deception ... etc. etc."
Are you speaking about ANY comment that doesn't agree with you???
Believe it or not, but there are many thinking people writing on this blog, not connected to MCFD or any government agency, born again Christians, as the Baynes and Ron are, that don't necessarily believe the Baynes' story. Does not believing them make them "masters of deception" also? A little simplistic, don't you think, to assume that anyone that questions their story, or asks questions about their story as being secretly connected or an agent of the MCFD. It is insulting. I believe that I am one of your "targeted" audience - however, as horrible as some of the stories are here, and they are, I also believe that there are generally two sides to every story, and my responsiblity to myself, is to seek out the truth by examining all positions. And that means asking questions. From both sides. Does that make me a government agent???
To Anon above:
ReplyDeleteGood damage control skill. There is no two side in fighting corruption.
Good week after hours.
Hello Ron!
ReplyDeleteSeemingly out of topic, thank you for opportunities to share with you and with your blog’s readers some of my unique experiences. Somewhere I mentioned that from about 30 SWs we worked closely with, only two were really excellent professionals. Five, or max eight of them, though being incompetent, had good intentions. I sometimes think about all our foster children, wondering what kind of young people they are now. I am pretty sure that one small child we prepared for adoption, really in her best interest, got very good and probably excellent parents.
This is a small example describing acts of one of SW we liked due to her good intentions. About three weeks before the adoption day we got and began showing the child photos of future parents, together drawing pictures of whole family, making plans for a lot of fun. Later we frequently displayed growing great joy that they will soon come. Two days before adoption day I saw two people, from distance secretly observing our children, certainly guessing which one is THE ONE. Despite SW’s explicit prohibition to contact them in any way if they show sooner than her, I did that, knowing there will never be any other occasion to explain them most important facts about the child, many unknown to SW. They were really good people. From the day before the great day we displayed a huge joy they will come the next day. They and SW arrived. Our foster child run and embraced them. We all, except SW, cried. About five min after the arrival, SW engaged parents in a small talk: where they live must be a lot of salmons, how she love eating them, asking about the best recipes. And that was the only one of all SWs who later (when we were alone) expressed some sorrow about what we must go through when the last of our children was on Mother’s Day abducted from pre-school, and we were not even allowed to give him his clothes, toys and said good bye.
Why I wrote that? We all must work to avert Paul and Zabeth’s children adoption, because from what I know it is obvious to me, and I am sure to all reasonable people, that in the whole world nobody, and I mean NOBODY of all six billions people, can be better parent to their children than real parents. Thank you and all people who truly care about the best interest of children!
Nazi-National Socialism. I have made a study of this era. And, yes, the extreme measures of CPS in the States and MCFD in BC do indeed mirror these National Socialism tactics.
ReplyDeleteReader from NYC
Ron - this is brutally one-sided: "Yet you might want to try adjectives like heartless, hard-hearted, callous, cruel, inhumane, brutal, uncaring, pitiless, unmerciful, uncompassionate, vindictive, vengeful, malicious, malevolent."
ReplyDeleteYou might want to try adjectives like caring, compassionate, empathetic, loving, passionate, dedicated, tender, sensitive, beautiful, lawful, industrious, intelligent, wise, wonderful.
Unless of course your words are how you perceive SW's in which case, it's your blog, write what you like.
Josef - what about the child raised in a home where the child is sexually abused? Better to leave the child with the parent? I could come up with other examples.
ReplyDeleteThis article by Suzanne Shell suggests that the comparison between CPS and Nazis isn't so inaccurate or inappropriate :
ReplyDeleteNazis: A Chilling Comparison Between Nazi Program and Child Protective Services (CPS)
"...In the United States, the state cannot legally evaluate a person based on their race, or use physical or racial characteristics to judge them. CPS agencies use something much more subtle, but no less specious than Nazi racial hygiene measurements; they use psychological measurements to determine how defective (dangerous to his own child) a parent has been or is likely to be. Under the mechanism of court ordered or coerced ‘voluntary’ psychological evaluations, many parents are being ‘diagnosed’ as a ‘risk’ to their children based on psych eval findings from service providers who are paid for by the state; who conduct their evaluations based on a tainted family history provided by the state; and who, by their own admissions, stand to lose their contract with the state if they submit any findings that are contrary to what the caseworker has ordained....
The best interests of the child has become the equivalent of the Nazi’s ‘Final Solution;’ a phrase that sound good and justifies their destructive and abusive actions. Clearly, the U.S. has an extensive history of plugging other people’s children into whatever slot they feel is best, the child’s and the families needs notwithstanding, placing political expediency above the humanitarian issue of truly protecting children..."
http://amiablyme.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/a-bit-of-history-on-child-protective-services/
One more story, Ron, if you like it, just to make civic workers madder :-) One SW we also liked, despite being incompetent, on one Thursday took our two foster children and all their possessions, much bigger than a few days before they came into our care, back to their home. She told us that we will be paid as if they were in our care over the weekend. She responded to my question if the Monday Family Court Hearing was canceled: no, but judges always do what we ask them for. Good night to all with clear conscience!
ReplyDeleteCW June 19, 2010 6:40 PM
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't one sided. I was suggesting to writers alternative words as substitutes for Nazi and its counterparts but was not excluding the possibility of positive attributes for social workers.
CV: Either see and evaluate the facts and evidence of my case, overcoming your so hurt feeling with my expressions, comment intelligently on them, and AFTER that I will gladly respond to your hypothetical questions you ask me only you know why, or stop bothering me with them, OK? My advice: read now comments made by people obviously much smarter than I and you together, OK?
ReplyDeleteRon, you should know after reading every comment on this blog - you can't provide one example without declaring the counterpart also. By omitting the positive attributes, you are, in the minds of many readers here, stating there are none.
ReplyDeleteJosef - I did, in fact, read the front page of your web site. The story is compelling. I wish we could have a point-by-point discussion of it. Many questions.
CW,
ReplyDeleteRon was giving parents alternative terms to use (instead of calling SW's "Nazis"); Ron was not describing what he thought of social workers. He has made many complimentary comments many times on this blog with respect to social workers.
All the terms you suggest are not alternatives to Nazis. The people who are labelling particular social workers Nazis are not likely to use the terms you prefer to use when describing social workers. So Ron is not being one sided, as you claim.
And even the people who are claiming that SW's can be like Nazis are not being one sided. Josef Fisher, for example, has stated that some of the social workers he has known do their job well. So please don't make this all sound like the MCFD and social workers are being so victimized / slandered; they are not.
Anon 6:34 - What I was saying, I thought quite clearly, was that by omitting the positive descriptors of SW you were, by default in many readers on this boards mind, saying the positive descriptors do not exist.
ReplyDeleteI know Ron has often portrayed both sides. I have applauded him for it on a number of occasions.
I can see why you would take my post the way you did - suggesting I believe they are being victimized/slandered. That was not my intention. Apologies. Many deserve the criticism they get!
CV: Everything I ever said or wrote to public servants was used against me, starting with 2nd complaint, hand-delivered to two MCF offices one week after I found how horribly the Registered SW, Master SW, Clinical Social Worker, Family and Children's Therapist & Mental Health Consultant Alvarez, emotionally and psychologically tortured my son in utterly illegal (based at SW Laycock’s perjury) State Custody. The warning to kill I made loudly at the courthouse hall before signing Supervisor Order certainly saved my two younger children from being kidnapped and their lives ruined like my eldest son’s life. I of course will never ever trust any Canadian public servant anything what he/she ever did, does and will do, like countless 2nd class citizens who received similar “services”. Yet, I have nothing to hide, and if you really really wish to talk to me, then click on both >> more at the main page and absorb the main facts (I think that reading cca 55 pages will keep you busy till evening), review cca 50 copies of official documents, listen to 38min long record of the police interrogation that ended with 4th or 5th arrest and with my first incarceration in the Intensive Psychiatric Care Unit. After that we can make free of charge video-call through SKYPE, if you will still think it could be useful (to you). Do not call before being sure you know the basic facts of my 12,5 years long so far non-violent fight to achieve something at least remotely resembling justice. My skypename: gambler-marias.
ReplyDeleteCW: PS: do not be afraid to read 55 pages of my incoherent babbling - it is not, almost all words are copied excerpts of responses to my reports of crimes, made by public servants of all kind and files - Premiers, their Deputies,MPs, MLAs, AGs, Public Affairs Bureau's officers, lawyers, policemen, mental health experts, Watch Dogs and more. After reading The First Public Comment "Attention-Seeker" Arrested After CBC Incident, reasonable people will never more trust anything what public servants wants them to think. And I am looking forward to that! :-)
ReplyDeleteJF - Do you believe you were arrested 5 times without any cause? Do you believe the diagnosis made after 30 days in the psychiatric hospital is incorrect?
ReplyDeleteI did read a lot of the notes sent to your web page. I will read the remainder at some point. It's fascinating.
It just amazes me how anyone could still continue to complain about social workers not getting enough respect or whatever when social workers clearly are doing such harm to children. If a person really cared about children, they wouldn't be spending all their time, or perhaps any of their time, defending social workers - they'd be spending their time trying to fix the problem. And the problem is that MCFD and social workers have way too much power, and they have abused that power, time after time.
ReplyDeleteLittle children are suffering horribly because of MCFD and their tactics.
And today at least one father who definately should be with his children, is instead without them. How painful that must be, for the father, the mother, AND the children.
Are you still in contact with your children, who must be adults by now?
ReplyDeleteAnon 12:29
ReplyDeleteOnly recipients of similar public services know the powerlessness, know the day after day replaying the insane horrors of abuse, from the moment when their children were snatched, all the time worrying how public servants so far abused them, are abusing them right now, constantly dreading horrors how their children will be abused the next minute, next hour, next day. Typical parents would gladly give their lives to protect their children from horrors of abuse. Yet recipients of similar public services cannot even do that. They are expected to lose their lives by instant or slow suicide, without any chance that their sacrifice will for one minute help their children anyhow. They cannot think clearly, function normally, deprived of a single moment of previous natural safety and happiness, deprived of optimistic expectations for the future. And abusers of power love to inflict even more pain when you think it cannot go worse. But it can, on horror times previously celebrated, especially on Mother and Father Days.
TO CW: see the fact and evidence, do not ask me what I believe, evaluate the facts and evidence by yourself, use your own talents, knowledge and experience, without any input from me.Thank you for voting "are you proud to be a Canadian?"! Not many readers bothered to click yes, no, or I do not know.
ReplyDeleteCW,
ReplyDeleteYou seem to imply that Josef couldn't possibly be telling the truth merely because he was in a psychiatric hospital, and merely because he was arrested, as if these things automatically imply his guilt.
Yet the media (which spends only limited time exposing corruption) has shown us that a) cops will taser and kill an innocent man (Robert Dziekanski); and b) the most respected, esteemed child forensic examiner in the province of Ontario (and perhaps the country), Dr. Charles Smith, did not deserve our respect whatsoever, as an inquiry found out:
"An Ontario inquiry into a series of faulty pediatric autopsies that led to the wrongful prosecutions of several parents and caregivers has concluded that the pathologist in the cases had "very serious failings," but also that his superiors moved "far too late" to curb him."
-----
You may not be aware, but Smith's "very serious failings" (not to mention his superior's failings) resulted in innocent parents being wrongfully convicted for the murder of their children.
http://www.nationalpost.com/disgrace+Charles+Smith/280593/story.html
So please don't pretend that authority is beyond reproach in this country.
Thank you anon for disclosing CW’s not so smart tactic! I am not a total fool to allege anything serious without having prima facie evidence of the presented facts. The facts and evidence of my so far fourteen or fifteen arrests, some with and some without warrants, plus all Assessments full of entirely obvious lies and a wild, let's say guessing, only prove how horribly corrupt also the child protectors’ aiders, abettors, accessories and accomplices are!
ReplyDeleteThanks for asking my questions JF. No secret tactic whatsoever. Just wanting your stance clarified. To be honest, it was difficult to read the blog.
ReplyDeleteI read the facts as you presented them. Excellent job providing such clear documentation.
I don't see an answer re: a relationship you have with your son? I hope it could have been salvaged.
JF, I don't see if you agree or disagree with the psychiatric assessment or if you feel you are in any way responsible (note: I didn't state WHOLLY) for being jailed on 5 separate occasion.
I did not ask you any questions, CW. Copies of presented evidence are official documents, created by quite literate public servants - social workers, mental health experts, policemen, lawyers, crown counsels, judges, ministers, MLAs' . . . It is obvious that you must spend much more time to comprehend them. For example, you will find that I was arrested 14 or 15 times so far. You obviously missed everything under the >>more at the bottom of the Main page. Author of comments and recommendations Mr. Norman Farrel has been in charge of a wide range of high profile cases. He argued on appeal the first genocide case before the ICTY and represented the prosecution before the ICTR on the appeal of the conviction of the Prime Minister of Rwanda for genocide. In Canada he has argued before the Ontario Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada. Mr. Farrell has lectured extensively on IHL in various countries including the USA, Canada, Sweden, Bosnia, Cambodia and Indonesia. Prior to commencing his international law career, he worked for nine years as counsel in the Crown Law Office (Criminal) in Toronto. An excerpt:
ReplyDeleteI read through your material a few times and I've gained a sense of your frustration with officials. This has gone on for a very long time and has interfered with your lives substantially. Obviously, events occurred unfairly and you were unable to set them straight. The reasons for that are complex and responsibility lies with all the participants. Had someone in government tried early on to correct the record, maybe that would have been sufficient. I also wonder if your anger over the events made a resolution difficult to achieve. If your goal is to get the bureaucrats to acknowledge their systematic errors, openly and completely, that is near impossible. In 2003, they wrote a letter which is as much an admission as I've ever seen that the department was wrong and the citizen right..
Thank you, JF. I am still wondering if the relationship with your son was salvaged?
ReplyDeleteThank you for providing Mr. Farrell's statement. It clears up matters.